WS0355

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  • ROINN COSANTA. BUREAU OF MILITARY HISTORY, 1913-21. STATEMENT BY WITNESS DOCUMENT NO. W.S. 355 Witness Mrs. Kitty O'Doherty, 30 Claude Road, Drumcoundra, Dublin. Identity Quartermaster Cumann na mBan 1916; Courier to Kilkenny Holy Thursday 1916. Subject (a) Nati nal activities 1913-1922; (b) Storage of arms pre 1916; (c) Work of Curnann na mBan Dublin 1916; (d) National Aid and I.V. Dependants Fund; (e) Clan na Gael in America 1919. Conditions, If any, Stipulated by Witness Nil File No. S.255 FormB.S.M.2. STATEMENT OF Mrs. K. O'DOHERTY, 30, Claude Road, Drumoondra, Dublin. Cumann na mBan. I joined Cumsan na mBan about two months after its formation. My husband was a member of the I.R.B. from long before the Volunteers were formed.. Later, be was in the Volunteers - G. Company of the 2nd Battalion. I have brought with me a number of evening and daily papers of 1916, which I will hand in to the Bureau, if required. They are very I was constantly in touch with Volunteer Headquarters. I was Q.M., in name, in Cumann na mBan. I used to sit at the top of the stairs, and mark everybody's cards by putting my initials, "K. O'D". on them. I succeeded somebody else who had been doing it before. We met at 25, Parnell Square. We were a Branch of Cumann na mBan. It was the Ard Craobh of Cumann na mBan, and it was the only Branch for a long time. Headquarters were in Dawson Street. We had weekly metings. We had a roll-call at each meeting. Miss MacMahon was Secretary of the Committee, and called the roll always. She is now Mrs. Rogers. Mimi Plunkett and I decided when Miss MacMahon married that some presentation should be made to her. They were not unanimous in the Branch. We decided to get an ink-stand made. It was made of silver and ebony. The design was a facsimile of the Cumann na mBan pin. Egan's in Cork carried 2. carried out our design. It was decided to present it to Mrs. Rogers in her new home in Kimmage. I took a girl named Brighid Connolly, with me on an outside car to make the presentation to Mrs. Rogers. After her marriage she never came back to the Branch. We did drilling - signal drilling. There were no arms whatever. I know of claims that were made afterwards; but I can only say what I know and can stand over; no arms were used. We were parading, doing signa1 drill and ordinary drill, and marching. We cut a very bad figure in the marching, and then Captain Seamus Kavanagh was drilling us in Cumann na mBan. If you wish to get the books of the National Aid, I have the right, as one of the three trustees of the National Aid books. They were deposited in the National Library, with a statement, signed, that nobody was to have access to these papers up to fifty years from Easter Monday, 1916, without the express permission of one of the three members of the Committee. That is the position. I have actually a copy of the list of the books and papers. The minute book of the National Aid Association would be a very good guide for what you are trying to do. You would find it very interesting. I knew that the Rising was planned. I knew that it was coming. It was always: "Good-bye, and here's to the day". I did not know what day was fixed. Tom MacDonagh was the first to give me a very good tip that, in three weeks' time, it would come off. He told what he had been doing, that he had been scouting Dublin, and that 3. that be had. all the maps of the neighbourhood, the hills and everything. We discussed some beck lanes and short cuts and things; and he said: "Within three weeks, we will have a stir." That was exactly three weeks before the Rising. He did not name the places. Tom MacDonagh used to come to my home. Dozens of people used come to the house. We never did big entertaining, but they would be given whatever was going for tea. Se‡n MacDermott and Tom MacDonagh used to come often. Tom's connection was through Pearse. I was a friend of Pearse and I also knew Pedraig Colum. I used to go boating with Pearse and I met the others at Gaelic League outings and aeridheachta. I was intimate with Pearse and interested in his experiment at Cullenswood and St. Enda's. He was a dreamer, but unfortunately never bad the money to bring his dreams to fruition. At the funeral of O'Donovan-Rossa, the members of Cumann na mBan. wore uniforms. Some of them were badly made, as if they were cut out with a knife and fork. However, we were not a military-looking body. We were very dowdy. Preparations for the Rising. From January 1916 the men began to come from England and Scotland. There were two camps, to which these refugees from the other side came. One was at Larkhill, Kimmage; and the other was 28 or 29 North Frederick Street. Se‡n Noonan and Ernie Noonan, his brother, and Francis Kelly came. These three were inMick Cremin's tent. He always lived in a tent, because he 4. he was an individualist and did not like to live in the city. He was always in very close contact with my family. These three men had to go out there to Mick in the hills. A contingent of man came from Glasgow, and a certain number from tiverpoo1. I had not much to do with the London crowd, but with these other boys who came over. They were working men. The Glasgow men used my house as their headquarters and when they were afterwards arrested two, at least, gave it as their address. I have handed in two exhibits. I want you to test the truth about the hoisting of the flag. Walpole is the man who claims it; but my own firm belief is that Se‡n Hegarty was the man who hoisted the flag. Walpole does not give Hegarty the credit. It is my opinion that it was mainly Hegarty who did it. Seamus Robinson came over from Glasgow with Sean Hegarty and the others; and he was very closely associated with Sean Hegarty. I have no personal interest beyond the truth. When this man, Hegarty, was dying, he sent for me and my husband, and asked me to befriend Ellen, his sister. He Was buried in the Republican Plot. You would like to see him getting credit and recognition. I secured a flat in the top portion of a tenement house in North Frederick Street. The caretaker was Mrs. O'Toole, and her husband was an ex-British soldier. Downstairs, a big room, to the left-hand side, was the headquarters of the Hibernian Rifles. They took part inthe Rising in 1916. I knew all of them, and the girls. Three girls got pensions - the two Healys of 188 Phibaboro' Road, and a girl named May Kavanagh. A brother of theHealy girls, Sean, who was in the Fianna, was killed at Doyle's 5. Doyle's Corner on the Tuesday of Easter Week. The Hibernian Rifles were not The Ancient Order of Hibernians but Board of Erin. They were associated with America. Consequently, when the pensions form was being drafted, the Hibernian Rifles were included as members of the Army; but all gradually merged into the I.R.A. I took this flat for these refugees in the same house as the Hibernian Rifles Headquarters. They were just living there. Then I had to look for delph, teapots, knives and forks, etc., for the flat. I collected what was necessary. It was ordinary stuff. I got a lot of help from Mrs. Murphy and her sister, who lived opposite the Cattle Market. They gave me cups and saucers and things for these men. They Should get mention, because I also got them to look after men on the run, including Mick Brennan and George Plunkett when they were all on the run. These two Ladies lived together. One was a teacher. She was Miss McShane. Her sister, Mrs. Murphy, was school attendance officer. They were lonely people, but very charming. The name of their house was 'An Grianan'. Instructions were given by Se‡n MacDermott to get groceries for these men in the flat, from Farrell's in Dorset Street. Farrell was a brother-in-law of Joe McGuinness. Bulmer came on Friday evenings to check the accounts. I met him there, and showed him the dockets for the different things I got. He paid the bills. About this time, Tom MacDonagh came to me to ask me, for God's sake, to come over to Headquarters that Nellie Gifford was setting them all mad. I don't know Was it true. 6. true. She had started an employment bureau - of course, with the best intentions in the world - at 2, Dawson Street. At these Headquarters, The O'Rahilly had a gun-room at the top, up the stairs. Michael O'Hanrahan was in charge. The O'Rabilly was an important man - buying arms and ammunition. I was actually there when a big cheque came in for arms. I understand it was the first cheque for arms, which came from Philadelphia. I got that information from the man who sent it, Joe McGarrity. I could not say for what amount it was. That occurred before St. Patrick's Day, 1916. On other occasions before and after, the Clan na Gael money had been sent in the form of gold sovereigns in small tin canisters. Clan na Gael men took jobs as sailors both above and below deck to bring messages and money. The massages were always in code. Nellie Gifford had a big ledger book in this place. She was getting the mames of all these men who had come over from England and Scotland and were looking for work. I don't think she realised that those men could not take work except with trusted employers where references would not be asked for. Michael Collins did not go into any camp. He was staying in Rathdown Road. Donald O'Conor, a chartered accountant in Westmoreland Street, allowed him to go into his office, so that he would have an objective. Collins went up and down to the office withou being paid. In order to help these men in the camps, Se‡n MacDermott gave me a long list - a foolscap sheet with names 7. names and addresses written on it - and a small receipt book, with each page stamped, and told me to go around and get subscriptions from these people. I had no trouble getting the money. They were sympathetic to the cause. I did not interfere with Nellie Gifford at all. We were friends. I can say that her employment bureau did not achieve any tangible results. A few weeks before the Rising, some time in March, I Was coming with Se‡n MacDermott from a meeting of Cumann na mBan. We went in to see J.J. Walsh's shop in Blessington Street where Se‡n wanted to leave some dispatches. After a Lot of talk, during which J.J. Walsh said it would be quite easy to land arms in small quantities in wooden boxes at small Ports along the coast, Se‡n and I came out. He said people like J.J. Walsh could ruin us with talk like that; he wished they would keep their mouths shut. He told me that Tom Clarke wanted to see me. When I went to him the next day Tom told me to hold myself in readiness to go to any pott in Ireland at very short notice and that it was terribly important and that he would not send anybody else but me. Although he did not tell ma what for, I was strongly of the opinion that it was in connection with the landing of arms. Spindler's book on page 244 shows that Casement had intended to land somewhere on the coast of Wicklow and I therefore conclude that this is where I was to be sent, ˆs the times correspond fairly closely. Saving the Guns. We had a last CŽilidhe coming off on the Saturday night 8. night before Palm Sunday in the Banba Hall, which belonged to the Grocers' Curates Ass˜ciation. It was the Cumann na mBan final CŽilidhe. On the Wednesday or Thursday night before it, I and a number of members of Cumann na mBan were in the Library of 25, Parnell Square, holding a final meeting. A knock came to the door. I bad my back to the door. Whoever answered the knock said: "Mrs. O'Doherty!" I went out. There were two men outside - Seamus O'Connor and M’che‡l O'Hanrahan. Seamus O'Connor is still alive. He is City Sheriff. He was on the Executive of the Volunteers I knew he was a prominent member of the I.R.B. I knew him very well, over a long period. M’che‡l O'Hanrahan was a rather quiet retiring man. It was surprising that they should execute such a man because he did not seem to be prominent in anything that was going on. I said: "What is it?" Seamus O'Connor - he was timid too - said: "There is a job to be done". I was very used to hearing that. I said: "What is that?" He was very excited, and told me, hurriedly, about guns that were in O'Shea's in Arran Road, Drumcondra. He Said: "You must get them. We want you to save them". I asked him: "How did. you know I was here?" He Said: "We were up at the house". M‡ire N’ Suibhalaigh and my sister-in-law, Rose O'Doherty, were in the house. They told Rose; but they came to 25, Parnell Square just the same, and asked me to save the guns. I turned round immediately, and went back into the room. I asked the girls to volunteer. I said: "I want volunteers. There is a job to be done". Nobody said a word. After a little while I looked round at them. I said to Brighid Foley: "Brighid Foley, do you refuse to come?" So Brighid 9. Brighid came, and Effie Taaffe too. I would like to explain the position leading up to my being asked to save the guns. Information about everything practically used to come out from the Castle. We had our own men in there, who were helping the movement, as well as earning their own living, by working there. Any raids that were threatened, any bits of information from the country, or any telegrams - all these things were made known. They were brought to the Castle, and then our friends in the Castle passed them on to us, thus proving that this bit of information came out from there regarding Se‡n O'Shea and the arms. Arms were being got into the country in any and every possible way. Se‡n O'Shea, who is still alive - secretary to the N.A.I.D.A. - lived that time in Arr‡n Road, Drumcondra. He was connected with the Irish Cutlery Company on the Quays. I don't know whether he was actually a member of the Volunteers, or not. He was very sympathetic. He was getting in small arms, under cover of a War Permit, which he had for the purpose of getting in stuff for his firm. This day that these two men called for me, the boxes of stuff came in to the North Wall. for Se‡n O'Shea, and, although they were marked, "War Permit", somebody opened them, and 'phoned to the Castle that Se‡n O'Shea's stuff contained small arms. Actually, the word, "bayonets", was to me too, but I could not say, not having seen them. When our man in the Castle was told, he immediately sent out word to Seamus O'Connor's office. Seamus was a Solicitor. Seamus. O'Connor knew that O'Shea's house would be raided, and that the stuff from the previous day had gone on to the house. I 10. I had myself a regular arsenal under the floor in my sitting-room. I can give you plenty of proof. It was my husband, course, who really was responsible, but he was away travelling, and I was in charge. I had dozens of bandoliers. I know nothing about firearms. I never claim to do what I did not do. I had these bandoliers, with bullets stuck in them - .303. They were either bought from British soldiers, coming home while the war wa on, or got by some other means. Then I had some of the Howth Rifles, which were not very good, as they were too heavy. Also, I had the matrix of the proclamation, which was printed by poor Dick McKee, aided by my husband. I had it stored away safely, with my husband's knowledge, and with the permission of Gill's. Dick McKee was working in Gill's. In order to get it Printed, Dick McKee and Mr. Keohane connived with my husband to steal the keys of the printing press at Gill's. They went down there one night, stayed the night, and printed thousands of these notices, which were headed, "Your King and Country Needs You". The heading of the notices was similar to that on many notices issued by the British authorities, but in the body of the notices they had drawn up something ridiculing the British. I had the matrix of that, and I was raided, but it was not taken, because the raiders were misled by the heading. When Brighid Foley, Effie Taaffe and I left Parnell Square and came across to Findlater's Church, on our way to O'Shea's house, - it was only a short distance - I told them what it was all about. Brighid Foley said she knew Mrs. 0'Shea. We saw a horse and jaunting car there, and we hired it. Johnny Lalor was the name of the driver. I engaged him to drive the two American delegates afterwards. 11. afterwards. He lived in Fontenoy Street. We sat up on the side seats, and he was in the dickie. I said; "Stop at the foot of Arran Road. I don't want to make any noise. Someone is sick. There is a new baby there. It is just past St. Patrick's Training College". We arrived at our destination. I had. half-a-crown in my pocket, which I gave to the driver. If he had asked for more, I would have had to get it from the others. It was only a short run away. We proceeded to O'Shea's house,which was on the right-hand side of Arran Road. We had no conversation. My two companions were kind of glum, and I wasnot so full of courage myself. I knocked. Mrs. O'Shea answered the door. I said: "We have come for the guns". She was very agitated. I said: "Where are the guns?" She said that they were out in Fleming's van. Fleming's had a grocery and pub just at the Tolka Bridge. Dot and Kitty Fleming were in the Cumann na mBan, and their brothers, Eamon and Michael, were in the Volunteers. I asked Mrs. O'Shea: "Where is the Fleming's van?" She said: "Out the road". I said: "The Fleming's van could not be out now, because the shop would be closed". She did not ask us in, or anything. She was really windy, We left Arran Road, and came out to the Drumcondra Road. The first two we met were M‡ire N’ Suibhalaigh and Rose O'Doberty, who is now Mrs. Pa Murray. They said they had come to help me. I said: "If we are all going to be walking around together, we will attract attention." They said: "There are others. There are men trying to help you". I Said to M‡ire N’ Suibhalaigh - I knew her intimately; 12. intimetely; we were good friends - "M‡ire, you come with me". I left Brighid Foley, Effie Taaffe and Rose O'Dobeity, and I took M‡ire with me. Fleming's shop was second from the corner of Botanic Road. When we arrived there, the shop was closed. There was a big policeman standing outside. I Knocked. Some- one said: "Who is there?" I said: "A customer. I want a pound of tea". Michael Fleming opened the door. I said: "I came for the guns". He damned, and damned. He was not a bit nice at all. He called his brother, Eamon. He took M‡ire and myself out through the kitchen. We did not go out straight through the shop. We were brought across a cobblestone yard. It was a horse stable; there was spring van there with two big parcels of guns. He opened a door on to Botanic Avenue. This was the only entrance for a car. It was not built up, as it is now. He shoved us out into the street. M‡ire said to me: "Glory be to God, Kitty, this will kill you". When we came to Botanic Avenue - we had gone about two hundred yards only - three man stepped up behind us. They were Diarmuid O'Hegarty, Gearoid O'Sullivan and Fion‡n Lynch, and they were living, at that time, at 44, MountjoyStreet. I went there often. Gearoid O'Sullivan was a teacher in St. Peter's Schools. When the three stepped up, Diarmuid O'Hegarty, who always talked with a strong accent, gave me his gun, and said: "Walk in front. If anything happens, walk back to me". They carried our two parcels. I walked just a little bit ahead of them. We passed one policeman at Botanic Gates. We came into Botanic Road at a point, almost but not 13. not quite past Botanic Gates. This Policeman was standing there, and never even looked at us. Maire was walking with one of the three man; the four of them were chatting away; and I was in front by myself. It was after ten o'clock when we got to Flemings, and there was no delay there. It was going on for eleven o'clock when we arrived, at the Canal Bridge, where they halted, and coughed for me. They told me: "You go ahead, and open your back gate". I went on towards my home. We lived at 32, Connaught Street. Actual1y, our home was always being watched, from the top and the bottom of the street. I went in. effie Taaffe was there, with Rose. I said: "Turn out the lights in the front of the house". I went out to the back gate, and opened it. M‡ire and the three men had come up the back lane. There was an exit at the upper end. They came into the house, through the kitchen, up the stairs, and in to the drawingroom. We put on a light. I said to Rose: "We must get these men something to eat. They are going to stay, in case we were followed". There were 110 guns in the parcels. They were smal1 arms. Se‡n MacDermott gave one of them to me which I still have. It is a small revolver - all nickel. Rose said: "We had better give them a bottle of stout". She went downstairs. Then she called me, and said: "There are only two bottles of stout". There was a third from which the cork had previously popped off. On this occasion, there were only two fresh bottles of stout for three men, and there was some frightful sweetcake. I said to Rose: "I never could pull a cork". She said she would pull the 14. the corks. We gave Fion‡n Lynch a glassaSSof stout, which bad no top on it. We thought it might sicken him, but it didn't. These three men stayed for several hours. They counted the arms. There were 110. Then we put the arms into the "glory-hole" under the stairs, where the gas meter and shelves are. There were big round Stones on the floor. I had to pull out the big stones, and they shoved in the stuff. I got up a concert -a March concert. Bulmer Hobson was not at any of our concerts. All the conoerta practically were given in 41, ParnellSquare. I have a letter in connection with that concert I organised for G. Company. We used to do everything for the concerts. We knew all the artists. Sometimes people even tried to join the Volunteers after our concerts. At one of these, Tom MacDonagh made a very daring speech. It opened with the words: "I am only a common soldier". Pearse spoke at another concert. I had asked him to come He Made a wonderful speech. None of them was in the habit of making daring speeches, because we knew there were always detectives at these gatherings. Our chief concern was to raise funds. I attended practically all the functions at 41, Parnell Square. Every week there was a concert for one or other of the Companies. I cannot remember having had a concert on Palm Sunday. I did not hear of any concert on Palm Sunday. It would certainly give me a jolt to discover that Se‡n MacDermott and MacDonagh allowed Bu1mer Hobson to make a speech at a concert on Palm Sunday. They would not have allowed him to go on, because they would not have wanted him to make a statement in public. I don't believe that story. Preparations - 15. Preparations for the Kerry Expedition. On the Saturday night, we had a cŽilidhe. I was there - not dancing - in my Cumann na mBan uniform. I was not in the ceilidhe room. I was not interestedin dancing. I was talking to Se‡n MacDermott He always laughed a lot when be was excited. He always had a very insinuating smile. He was talking to me about things in general, and about the guns. He was paying me really great compliments, because the Emmet concert which I bad organised was a great success. Diarmuid Lynchhad got the advertisements for the programme. Then he said: "You go in there, and send out Fion‡n Lynch to me, from the Ceilidhe Hall. I want to discuss a little business with him. He is one of the men that I had intended to send to Tralee. Send him out to me. I am going to cancel that". I went in, and went up along to where Fion‡n was. I said Fion‡n was wanted outside. I did not come back; but I came out afterwards; and Se‡n Said: "Get me Con Keating". Con Keating had bought two tickets from me. He had taken them, but had not paid for them, I went in, and got Con Keating. He was a fine type of man - a grand character. I Said: "Se‡n wants you outside". Con Keating went out; and Se‡n MacDermott gave him his instructions about going to Kerry. Con Keating came up to the house to pay me for the two tickets. I think it was Tuesday. It was in the day-time. There was a gun, which had to be shifted. Con Keating said he would shift it. He put this gun into the leg of his trousers. It looked just as if he had a stiff leg. He paid for his tickets, and walked off with the gun. Purchase 16. Purchase of Stores for the Rising. I got a note from Se‡n MacDermott to go down to him on Tuesday. He said: "I want you to do something special". He bad the ceilidhe money - Miss MacMahon had handed it over to him - and he gave me lOO. He said: "I want you to go to the Junior Army and Navy Stores in D'Olier Street, and buy all the Army blankets you can - also, basins and soap". "If you are caught", he said, "you don't belong to me". Ha arranged to meet me in the hall of the Kating Branch of the Gaelic League. It was right beside "An Sted". I was to meet him there at eight o'clock on Wednesday night. In the meantime, I went to buy the stuff. I brought Rose O'Doherty with me. She did not have anything to do with the buying, but she came with me We went to the Army and Navy Stores, which was a big shop, with stairs going up, and a balcony. I walked up, looking around. I came to this counter and I said I was looking for Army blankets. They got the idea that I was some Britisher. I said I also wanted some soap and basins. After a while, I had the Manager. I had never seen Army blankets. He said: "What regiment are you catering for?" I said: I am in the happy position of having friends in all the regiments". He said: "There is a new regiment after coming into Portobello Barracks". A new regiment had come. So I said I just wanted to see the stuff. He had somebody taking them out, and putting them down on the counter. He Said: "These are better class. How many do you want?" I was thinking. He said: "If you take more, I will give you them at a flat rate." There were some dear, and some cheap. I could not tell you exactly how 17. how many I got, although I had the receipts. I had hundreds of things like that but you wouldn't have time to look after them all, although I did manage to salvage a good few things. I paid for all the stuff. He was waiting, very alert. "To what address", he asked "Will we send them for you?" I said: "Care of Count Plunkett, Larkhill, Kimmge." He wrote down the address. Basins and everything were to be sent. They were delivered too. I met Se‡n MacDermott on Wednesday, as arranged. I did not go to him directly. He was standing in the hall. I had the change and the receipts. I said: "These are the receipts. Will you tike them?" He said: "Not at all, not at all. Did you ever meet this man?" I said: "No". Standing near was Mick Collins. That was the first time I saw Mick Collins. Se‡n had in his hand a little thing, which I thought was a meat mincer, or coffee strainer. He said: "Do you know what-that is for? That is for making. munitions". I gathered he said it was for making .22 ammunition. He would not count the money. He was kind of cranky. He handed the gadget and the balance of the money to Mick, and said: "You take that. These fellows, the blackguards - they are breaking all my implements, took at that - So useful. You go ahead, and make these man work harder". He said a few things - that the men were slacking, but he gave Mick Collins the instructions to get them to work harder. I had not been home. Se‡n said to me: "There is an important message for you at home", I Went home. Carrying 18. Carryin of Dispatch to Kilkenny. There was a message for me when I arrived, there. I was to go out immediately to Tom Clarke's house in Richmond Place at the end of Richmond Avenue. By this time, it must have been half past eight, or later. I used to live on the wind most of that time. I bad a maid. Anyway, I went off, down Clonliffe Road and out to Tom Clarke's house. When I got there, Tom Clarke was sitting in an inner room, in off the drawingroom, through folding doors. I went in to Tom. I said: "Se‡n sent me". He said: "Yes. Will you go to Kilkenny in the corning?" I said: "Of course". Tom was very quiet, and very thoughtful. He said; "Wait a minute. I knew you would. You will have to get the 6.40 train in the mornirg. Can you make it?" I said: "Yes". He said: "Now, we will give you your train fare. If you get something, and if you have to take a motor car for the journey home, take it. But be back here by two o'clock". That was Holy Thursday morning. "Now, listen", he said, "don't say that either Se‡n or myself sent you. Say Pearse sent you". - he repeated it - "Don't say that either Se‡n or myself sent you. Say Pearse sent you". Then he gave me a blue envelope. This was a written message for De Loughrey. I did not see the message. Tom said: "Tell him that you are to bring the samples. Say you will take the samples". In the light of after events, I know I was supposed to get hand grenades; but I did not know then. That was my message - that I was to take the samples. Daly came up along Clonliffe Road. with me - escorting me - when I left Tom Clarke's house on Wednesday night. I 19. I got up very early on Holy Thursday morning. I had my message and 3, which Tom Clarke had given me. In the morning, I started off to walk along the North Circular Road to get to Kingsbridge Station. There were no trams. It Was a cattle market day. Just as I was at Phibsboro an o1d man got off a hackney car; and I hired the hackney, and drove to Kingsbridge. While I was in the station - there was quite a queue Standing, waiting for tickets - the first I saw was Marie Perolz; and further up in the queue was Maeve Cavanagh. went to Waterford. I think Maeve Cavanagh went to Limerick, or it might have been to Cork. She was there. I knew her. Miss Perolz and Maeve Cavenagh were there. When I got to the Station then, all the fuss was on. We just winked at each other. Then news came that there was a German submarine in the Bay, and that the small boat was delayed. Consequently, our train was one hour Late in leaving; and I did not see them again. They all got into the train. I did not have to change at all. I got out at Kilkenny. I am not very good at praying, but that morning I was praying that I might find the Iron Foundry, without having to ask for directions. I walked from the Station, and, walking along, the first thing I saw was "Iron Foundry". It was a dingy- looking place. To whoever was behind the counter, I said: "I want to see Peter. de Lougbrey". He bowed, and I said: "I have just come off the train from Dublin, and I have a message for him". He was immediately antagonistic. He said; "Who sent you?" I said: "Padraig Pearse". He took the letter, which I handed to him, 20. him, and went to an inner room; and he was out agdin in a minute. No one asked me to sit down. He said: "Who sent you?" I said: "Padraig Pearse". He said: "It was not. It was Clarke and MacDermott. I have my instructions and I am going to act on, them". I said: "I was told to take the samples". He said: "I have my instructions, and I am going to act on them". He was just as short as that. I know that messages were sent out earlier - before Thursday. I think there were some sent to Kerry - not to fall into line with the Sunday's arrangements. Hobson was to blame for it. I can't prove that. (That is why I am so amazed when you said he made a speech at a concert on Palm Sunday). We were told that Hobson had sent out messages. "Countermanded" was the word - Hobson had countermanded. You know that every man was to be ready for Sunday, and you know the arrangement that was to be made for Kerry. I was working in the office in Dawson Street. I don't know, from my own experience there, that be sent out these messages. I did not see any massages. I will think it out. That, as I told you, was the impression that I had at the time. Do Loughrey said: "I have got my Instructions, and I am going to act on them". He would not give me anything. "It was not Pearse who sent you", he said, "it was Clarke and MacDermott sent you". Then I went back to the Station, and got my train to Dublin. I bought a twopenny bar of chocolate. There was nothing else to do. When I arrived in Dublin, I went straight to Tom Clarke's shop. I gave him the change. 21. change. I told him what happened. Tom's eyes lit up. He said: "Just as I expected". He used to stare, and look right through you, with the most extraordinary eyes; you would know he was not thinking about you. He said: "Just as I expected". That was Holy Thursday. It was Marie Perolz who talked about it afterwards to me. We talked so often that I am amazed she can't think of it. I know Dan Carroll went to Kerry. He went on Good Friday. I can't tell you what message he carried, but he went to Kerry. He onewas oneof the very best fellows. He was Intelligence Officer afterwards in Paddy Moran's Company. He died later, in Australia. The O'Rahilly came back from Kerry. I understood fromDan Carroll that he met The O'Rahilly in Kerry. Dan Carroll told me that. He was a professor, and was a native of Newtownsandes. Good Friday Activities. On Good Friday morning, at ten minutes. to ten (I know that, as the Phibsboro Church bell rang) - I was going to have new curtains put up for Easter, particularly because my maid was going away on Saturday morning; she was doing odds and ends; I said to her: "It is nice and quiet; we will get them up". Michael O'Hanrahan called with a message. He lived higher up/the in street then we. I knew him personally. He said: "You are wanted. E—in MacNeill wants you immediately over at Headquarters, and you are to bring some trusty messengers". He saw the position I was in. I was there, and the curtains were down. I said: "Tell him I will be immediately over, after 22. your" So I went. On my way down, I decided to call for Miss Perolz, having seen her the previous day. She was living in North Great George's St. I called in. She was down in her basement. She was very tired, but she was up. She said, yes, she would go - "bad luck to you I went down George's St, down the hill and in to Tom Clarke'sshop. Tom was standing there in the shop. There were no customers. He was looking into the future. Ho was not looking at you at all. I talked to him. He said "Go over to MacNeill. Don'tbring ami messengers but come back and tell me what is happening". So we just had a few words. I forget what it was about. It was not anything of an bearing on this at all. I went straight over to headquarters, No. 2 Davison St. There was confusion at headquarters. Barney Mellows was singing. The women of the Cumann na mBan were taking out the remainder of the stuff. They ware in a room on the right-hand side of the front. Eoin MacNeill and Barney Mellows were in a room on the left-hand side of the first floor. I went streight to Eoin MacNeill. His face was a study to me, He was, always very sallow. He now had two huge pink spots. He said to me: "I want you". He did not ask me about the messengere. He said: "Wait awhile. I want to give you all my private papers". I was standing there. They were tearing up things and pulling out everything. I stood my ground. I did not say anything at all to him, or anybody. There was real confusion, but it was not like a raid, because they weresinging. MacNeill said to me: "Hobson is out joy-riding". This was Good Friday morning. I heard a whole, lot. Anyhow, this was the statement - that Hobson was out joy-riding, and they were, very much annoyed with him, on such a day and with so much at stake; and he was out joy-riding. Miss Perolz came up the stairs. MacNeill had this parcel - all papers - rolled. It was a very 25. big parcel. He made it himself. I saw him reading things, and tearing up some. These were his private papers. I can assure you I never looked at them once I gave my word. It was a parcel rolled in brown paper. Finally, He was finished. He said: "You keep those until they are called for; keep them yourself" - he emphasised "yourself" - until I send a special messenger to you. He said this girl, Ryan, would call for them. This girl, Maeve Ryan, was a blonde, with ringlets, and was dressed beautifully; she lived, as far as I know, on Clonliffe Road. MacNeill emphasised the fact that I was to keep them under my own control - "keep them yourself". The last sight I got of Barney Mellows was of him still singing in the room. I walked down the stairs, chatting to MacNeil. When we came to the outer door, Miss Perolz was now standing outside the door. Rosy, the detective, who wasalways haunting us, was standing at the lamp-poet. Eoin MacNeill's car was not directly outside No. 2; it was up a bit - about a hundred yards beyond it. I went up with him, carrying the parcel myself, and shook hands with him. I turned round and saw that John MacDonagh was joining Miss Perolz. He was not in NO. 2 Dawson St. I did not see him there. He Never Struckme as serious. He said to me: "Allow me, Madame". I said: "No, no, I carry my own parcel". He said to me: "I don't walk with a lady with a parcel". I said: "Then you don't walk with me". We just walked along. He said he was going out to the Volunteers in Croydon Park, fairview. I parted with him at College St. I did not want to be with anybody. I felt I had something valuable. I felt I owed that much to MacNeill. I took home his parcel. On Good Friday afternoon I went down to Liberty Hall to see the Countess. I was very fond of her - and still am. 24. She did a lot for us, and no one realisea more what she did for us. There are a few petty woman who did hot think much of her. I went into Liberty Hall to see her. I thought I was accustomed to her eccentricities. She said to me: "I want to show you something. I could not fight in skirts, though I am wearing one now." She had a short skirt of green material and she Just undid one big hook. She stood up in Breeches and puttees. It was a shock that remained with me, when she undid the hook. She repeated: "I could not fight in skirts". She was very proud of herself. I don't think it was a cast-off uniform of Mallin's. This was perfect- fitting. She looked marvellous. She had a Sam Brown. She wanted to show it to me. You know how tall she was, and how skinny Hallin was. She really looked marvellous. She said: "Come in to Connolly". She brought me in to Connolly. He had a green coat on him and had it open at the neck. I thought he was only after waking up. He was dishevelled. They were printing the proclamation. I did not know Connolly very well. That was the last time I was in Liberty hall. I had been so often in Liberty Hall when the Countess had her kitchen during the strike in 1913. That is how I was very familiar with her. Holy Saturday. On Holy Saturday, my maid went away for the day and never came back. On Saturday, my husband arrived with a big case of guns from Derry. It was a huge case, like a cabin trunk. The train got in to Amiens St. Station around one o'clock. It was well known that the guns were coming. It was like bees around a jampot, because the crowd were around to get the revolvers. There were all kinds of revolvers and ammun’tion for them. There were no rifles. He brought them from Derry. 25. He came home on Holy Thursday night from his business travels and he wont straight to Sean McDermott, who sent him to Derry on Good Friday. He used to bring home tins or gelignite. He had to go down to Sean McDermott with them I can't tell you any other details. Joe O'Doherty was in Dublin. I left him in the house When I went away on Holy Thursday morning. I did not see him when I came back. My husband said to me that Sean McDermott ordered Joe back to Derry immediately; he was very annoyed with him. On Good Friday he had to go on the mail train to Derry. On Saturday these guns were being distributed. At the same time, I had to leave my children and go to Lawler's of Fownee St. to buy webbing and water bottles for people coming to the house for them. I made three journeys. I had to put on a different hat each time I went to the shop. I did a lot of shopping of that sort for them. During the day various people came looking for arms, ammunition and equipment. Miss Perolz came looking for .3O3 for a friend of hers and I gave it to her. Another who came was Patrick Shortis who wad unfortunately killed in the Rising. Sean Hegarty was a man who gave great assistance doing all aorta of jobs. As I have already said, he, and not Walpole, hoisted the flag on the G.P.O. on Easter Monday. The Scottish contingent were coming and going all day - Eddie Carrigan, Paddy Morrin, Sandy Carmichael, Cormac Turner, two brothers celled Rice. One of these brothers did not take part in the Rising because he got covered with a rash and had to go to hospital. On Saturday night my husband was called on a very important message to Sean McDermott who asked him to collect Pearse from Seen T. O'Kelly'e house, I think in Rutland Place. He, my husband,. called at 28 North Frederick St. 26. and brought with him a fine fellow called Lieut. Craven a Voluntear.I have his narrative about his part in the rising and will give it to you. They brought Pearse to a meeting in HardwickeSt. This wouldbe after midnight. My husbandand Craven stood guard in a room in the house during the meeting which lasted a long time. Craven did some great work on the Easter Sunday, Being sent to fetch come gelignite froma quarry in Co. Dublin. Easter Sunday. On Sunday nobody know what was happening. People kept comingin and out and talking excitedly. Mmicheal O'Hanrahan Came. Ldam Archer, Diarmuid Hegarty, Fionan Lynch, Paddy Moran, Michael Staines and Gearoid O'Sullivan came in in the evening and I Remember giving them all rashers and aggs. During Sunday, in spite of the countermandingorder in the paper, I myself receiveda mobilization order. This was contradicted later. The men were discussing the same thing. Their mobilization orders were cancelled and they were to stand to. The Rising. On Monday morning the order to mobilise came to my husband direct from Sean McDermottand a similar one from G/Coy. 2nd Battalion, to which he belonged. Paddy Moran came in great excitement with a pair of lady's white gloves and his will. He had taken a girl to a dance on the Saturday night and her gloves remainedin his pocket. He then told me that he was going to fight and asked me what foodstuffshe could bring round to me from Doyle's in Phibsboro' where he worked and whereI used to buy my supplies. He brought me a basketful of tine of salmon, loaves of bread and jam. Immediately after that Frank Daly called. He asked what tools he could get to demolisha 27. bridge that had heen assigned to him. It was a bridge on the country side of the Cabra Bridge. He took all the tools he could lay hands on. Re Saw my plight, alone with 3 small children. On Tuesday, the girl who was engaged to Bulmer Hobson called. She was weeping, end leaning on another girl who was with her. "Where is Bulmer?" she asked. She had been sent by MacNeill to fetch his papers which I handed over to her. At some hour that same morning Eily O'Hanrahan called to discuss things with me. She told me that she had been on a message to Enniscorthy and Wexford, that she had not delivered it but had eaten. it. Mrs. Martin Conlon and two of the Foleys called and discussed the release of Hobson. Maire Ni Cairbre, later Mrs. English, came to ask if I had any more arms or ammunition in the house She was so anxious to get them that I went to an old Parnellite, Mr. Goggins, who had often shown me guns and small arms which he had kept as bouvenirs. He gave Maire Ni Cairbre all he had. The rest of the week was uneventful. My husband was away. People down the street were opening their doors and giving tea to the soldiers and there were all sorts of wild rumours scattered. On Thursday, Father Ned Flynn, the curate in Ratoath, who had at tended the wounded after the battle of Ashbourne, made his way in to me on a bicycle. He gave an account of the battle. He Communicated with my brother, Fr. Gibbons in Kinnegad and the latter came with a car on the Friday and took myself and the children with him to Kinnegad. I think I stayed there till about the 9th May. I think it was on 3rd May, the day of Pearse's execution, that my sister, M. Columba of the Loreto Convent, Navan, wrote the poem "who tears to speak of Easter Week". The two Pearses were very close friends of my brother. The song was being sung all over the place. I did not know at 28. the time that it wascomposed by my sister as it was signed merely "Colm". She was always very patriotic and got into difficulties in the convent over it. We used to send her the national papers through a travelling Irish teacher, Seamus Ž Murchadha. She wrote the song on the back of an envelope and gave it to him. He had it typed and disseminated. It caught on very rapidly. Volunteers' Dependants' Fund and amalgamation of the two bodies. Almost immediately after the excutiona - my maid came back to me on the 12th May - a few of us met in an office in D'Olier' St. It belonged, to Sean (John R.) Reynolds. Miss McMahon and. I had been in touch with him before the Rising. He had put us on the Wolfe Tone Committeewhich used to meet in 41 Parnell Square. Our purpose in meeting now was to collect the names of the men in gaol and to get in touch with their dependents. Miss McMahon told me that there was a quantity of gold coins - this was very hush- hush - supposed to be buried in Tom Clarke'sgarden at the top of Richmond Ave. This would, no doubt, have been sent by Clan na Gael. She suggested; that it would be used for the relief of the Volunteers' dependents. That money never materialised, so we did not know where to turn to provide funds. The authorities banned all our efforts to collect money publicly, by flag days, etc. Private subscriptions were coming into our Organisation which was called the Volunteers' Dependants' Fund'. Miss McMahon was the chief driving force of the organisation. She worked 18 hours a day. Eily O'Hanrahan was an early member. Molly Reynolds was a good worker too. Our chief difficulty was that some persons were getting money from a rival organisation called the National Aid Association. The prominent members of 29. this were Fred Alien (Sec,), Mrs. Wyse-Power, Louise Gavan- Duffy, Min Ryan, Alderman Corrigan, John Gore, Tom Cullen (the architect), J. McVeigh, John Dillon Nugent. There was no prohibition on their collecting money, perhaps because of their name. They had intended to work: on a big scale and there was continued friction. We found that having got money from them, people also came to us and some even got money from the Prince of Wales Fund which Was a Lund raised for the relief of British War widows. The confusion only lasted at the outside six weeks. In Mid-June John Archdeacon Murphy of Buffalo came over as a representative of Clan na Gael and John Gill of the Bronx, New York, as a representative of Labour. It was about this time that I applied for and obtained a permit to visit Austin Stack in Kilmainham. I showed my permit to the sentry at the gate, gave him a half-crown and walked. innocently across the yerd. Suddenly Austin Stack, Con Collins and Seamus Brennan - he had been arrested in connection with the trouble in Tullamore beforethe Rising - rushed towards: me in great excitement. Austin said they had a chance to escape through a friendly warder if a car could be procured and brought to the prison gate at midnight the next evening. I did not know what to do. I went to Floss O'Doherty, a cousin of Fionan Lynch, who was a teacher in ueen St. Schools. After a lot of trouble he succeeded in getting a milk-cart which he arranged would turn up at the prison gate at the appointed hour the next evening. I went home, and what was my amazement to see the door opened by Seamus Brennan. He informed me that, shortly after my visit to the prison, Austin Stack and Con Collins had boon transferred to Mountjoyand he himself with some others had been set free after a drumhead courtmartial. 30. In the Spring of 1916 the Clan na Gael in America had called an Irish Race Convention in New York from which Sprang a new open - not oath-bound - organisation, called The Friends of Irish Freedom. Its object was to crystallise the Irish Americanvote for the purpose of American Politics. Judge Cohalan came to be head of it although Fr. P.McGuinness the Carmelite, was elected head, but, being shortly after elected Superior-General of his Order, he had to go to Rome, leaving Cohalan in sole command. Immediately on receiving the news of the executions the Irish blood was roused to indignation and tile F.O.I.F. started a nation-wide collection by which the money poured in. The Clan na Geel (John Devoy) wanted to pick up the threads of the organisation here. No letters or papers went uncensored. Consequently, there were tour delegates nominated by the P.O.I.F. which was honeycombed by Clan na Gael. These were sent to Ireland in the second week of June to collect first-hand infoxmation and to make arrangements for disbursing the considerable moneys of the Fund. The two mentioned came through. Murphy was a member' of the Council of Clan na Gael. He was a lawyer Gill was a labour leader. Mr. Murphy told me he travelled with 13 suits. The other two - one of them was Thomas Hughes Kelly, -I cannot remember the name of the second - were turned back from Limerpool. The delegates stayed in the Gresham. On the day of their arrival they went over to Gill's to see my husband whose names was given them by John Decoy. I was sent for immediatelyas they wanted somebody who would show them round to the places they wanted to go and to the people they wanted to see. The detectives followed them from their arrival and questioned them in the Gresham. They were ordered to go to H.Q. at Parkgate to report the purpose of their visit which they explained was to provide relief. I came to the Gresham and after a short conversation in which I explained all I knew about the 31 victims of the Rising and the families of the executed and imprisoned volunteers. They insisted that I should accompany them in all their tact-finding visits. They even wanted to pay me. They hired a car - the same driver I had taken on the occasion of saving the guns. Everywhere we went we were followed by another jaunting car full of detectives. The Americans called themthe Christian Brothers. Johnny Lawlor, our driver, did his best to lead them a dance by making all sorts of detours. I brought them first to the North King St. area to the houses where the tenants had been butchered by the British soldiers. We visited every house which, of course, took hours. They were terribly impressed. Then I took them to the houses of the executed leaders. We went first to St. Enda's where Mrs. Pearse showed the relics of her sons and the letter sent out to her by the prison goveror telling her Padraig wanted to see her before his execution. For almost three weekswe continued these visits. In the meantime, Min Ryan came backfrom America where she had been sent by the Committee of the National Aid. She had only been away 6 weeks altogether, and said that there was no money to be got in America. I heard that she had asked Mrs. Clarke for an introduction to John Devoy but had not got it. Her mission was a failure as she evidently did not succeed in making any useful contacts. I remember one funny incident in the course of our visits to the relatives of those who were executed or killed. The delegates wanted to see a real live Fenian. I brought them to Peadar Macken's father who lived in Nassau Lane. He was in bad as he been when I visited him earlier. He did not say a word. I asked him to tell about his activities in '67 but he still remained silent, looking at his visitors. I filled his pipe for him and then he said "Do you know what th 32. girl said to the prieet when he asked her an awkward question at confession: "Well, father" says she, "if It's your hearing day, it's not my telling day." The Delegateswere very much amused and when we left, asked me to repeat the story to them so that they could tell it again in America. They then found that we had two funds and that there was overlapping. Therefore they decided that an amalgamation should be brought about. Mr. John Archdeacon Murphy approached both parties with this object in view I should point out that the Irish Volunteers' Depandaxts'4 Fund dealt solely with the relatives and dependents of the executed and imprisoned Volunteers while the other worked on broader lines. Very strong objection was raised by members of the I.V.D. Fund to the presence on the committee of certain Irish Party representatives, mainly Hibernians, e.g., J. McVaigh and Nugent. The final decision was that there should be twelve members of each committee with 5 labour members (O'Brien, Farren, Foran and2 others). Archbishop Walsh was invited to act as Chairman. He deputed the Administrator, Father Bowden of the pro-Cathedral, Marlboro St., to act in his place. Whenthe committeewas formed Mr. Keohansof Bill's was appointed deputy chairman. The delegates had brought £5,000 with them as a token and gave a promise of endless contributions. Larkin from America sent a sum of money expressly to Fr. Magennis who was on holidays at the time at the Carmelite College, Terenure. I don't know what the money was for or how it was disposed of. Our Fund did not get it. The two delegates drove with meto deliver it to Fr. Magennis. The name of the organisation was henceforth the National Aid and Volunteer Dependents' Fund and we took quarters finally in Exchequer St. It has been generally conceded that no fund has ever been so economically administered. As well as America which, of course, contributed the lion's share of our funds, Ireland's friends in England, Scotland, Africa, Canada and Australiasent generous contributions for our purposes. On the return, of the convicted prisoners in June 1917, each of them received a lump sum - £40 for married men and £20 for single memon the day of their release, as well as £250 later for married men and £150 for single men, or the equivalent of a year's salary. Any further information required in regard to the disbursing of the moneys of the Fund and the operation generally of the Committee can be obtained from the minutesof the meetings which, as I have already stated, are deposited in the names of the three trustees; John Murphy (formerly of O'Loughlin, Murphy and Boland), who is still alive and who was a close friend. of Parnell's and was very prominent in the '98 celebrations, William O'Brien and myself Mr. Gill returned to Americasome time before Mr. Archdeacon Murphy and there was a little comic episode associated with his departure. He was very fond of birds and he told me he wished to bring back one or two from Ireland. I said I might be able to get him one. The caretaker of the house in North Frederick St. where the Hibarnian. Rifles and the Keating Branch of the Gaelic League were located was an ex-soldier called O'Toole. He had rescued a linnet in a cage from the LinenhallBarracks when they were burnt down and brought it to Nth. Frederick St. A member of the Hibernian Rifles, Christy Healy, and myself asked him to sell to Mr. Gill. He refused, probably expectingan offer of a large sum to be paid for it. Healy told me he would undertake to get the linnet which sang beautifully. He arranged with a. pal 35. of his to meet on Sunday morning at a certain place and to go to the Bird Market to buy a Linnet. Healy turned up but although he waited a considerable time, his pal did not. He went alone to the Bird Market and bought a linnet in a small cage. When he informed me what he had done I went to the house in Frederick St. end, finding the caretaker's wife there, I sent her on some errand to get her out of the way. Healy substituted the linnet he had bought for the one in the cage which he took home with him to his house in Phibsboro Road and Hung it in its cage on the wall Healy's pal, who had made a mistake about the place of appointment, also turned up at the Bird Market and bought a linnet in a cage. He brought it to Frederick St. and exchanged it for what he thought was the wanted linnet which he took to Healy's house. Healy wee not in, so he laid it on a table in the parlour. when the caretaker's wife came back her little son told her that Christy Healy had taken their linnet Out of the cage and put in another. She rushed to Healy's house and, seeing the linnet in he case on the table, she seized it saying: "My darling bird, you'll never see the shores of America". Mr. Gill was delighted with the bird when it was brought to him and he took it back with him to America. Immediately after the Rising my husband had started organising the I.R.B. and he became the acting head of the Supreme Council of the Provisional Government of the Republic which met at our house. All communications from John Devoy came to him and that is why the American delegates contacted him in the first instance. According as batches of prisoners were released from time to time from British camps and gaols a lot of unfair comment was reported from various places against the leaders of those Volunteer Brigades - such as Cork and Kerry - which 36. had taken no part in the Rising. My husband, as head of the Supreme Council, attended an inquiry into the matter which resulted in a complete exoneration of the leaders in question. McCartan's Missions. Count Plunkett's Election. Return of Prisoners. Kevin O'Sheil&Andrew Malone came to our house with a view to sending somebody to America in order to have Ireland's case represented at the Peace Conference. Count Plunkett was the man chosen/ for the Peace Conference having been elected as member for Roscommon in the Republican interest. My husband and Fr. 0'Flanagan wrote his election address for him in our house. There were no funds to fight an election. On hearing this from my husband, Fr. Flynn of Ratoath wired to me that they could count on him for £400. When Mr. Keohane of Gills was informed of this, he said they should not accept all that from him, that he himself would put up £200. This sum of £400 formed the basis of the election fund. Withoutthe generosity of these two men the election could not have been fought. Of course, the money was eventually reimbursed from funds collected in the constituency. Just before the election one dayMick Collins was in our house. He was very anxious to go down to help at the election but did not know how he couldget there. As it happened, William O'Brien called, and when I found he was driving down to Roscommon, I asked him if he had room for a man. He said he had and Mick Collins got the seat. William has often said to me since that I had the responsibility of launching Mick Collins on his career. At that time petrol, being strictly rationed, wasvery scarce. I want to paya special tribute to the Liberty Hall men in this connection. At my request, William O'Brien and 37. Tom Farpen, who had been accustomed to electioneering, collected a man called Sexton, Dan McCarthy and some others. All these said they would like to go down, but Wherewere they to procure the petirol? My husband arranged with & man who had a cycle shop, Reynolds, in North King St., and one day a message came to me that the "stuff' was there and should be fetched immediately. My maid's mother, Mrs. Healy, who lived in 188 Phibsboro Road, had a small pony and trap which I borrowed and was obliged to yoke myself. I called at the cycle shop and Reynolds and another men loaded in a sack into the trap 9 tine of petrol. One of these leaked on the way and I deposited it in the hall of a tenement house. This petrol was used for the various cars that went from Dublin to the Roscommon election. Michael Davitt was the first choice of the local committee in Roscommon and, when he delined in deference to his mother's wishes, Mrs Laurence Ginnell was sent to viewthe Count in Oxford, who consented to stand. Ward's Hotel in Boyle WBB the headquarters for the republican side. Before proposing the Count as candidate, my husband had got an assurance from him that he stood on the platform of the Proclamation of Easter Week. My husband's activities in connection with the Roscommon election did not meet with the approval of his colleagues in the Supreme Council of the I.R.B. who did not seem to realise that the object for which that Body was founded and kept in existence up to the Rising had been realised and the Republic become a fait accompli by the Proclamation of Easter Week. Therefore, although they had ample funds in their treasury it was not made available for this "constitutional" purpose. Between the Roscommon election and the Longford election 38. the Count was active in establishing Liberty Clubs as opposed to the Sinn Fein Clubs, as Arthur Griffith was still President of SinnFein. The first Sinn Fein Club in the city that was started after the Rising was the O'Rahilly Club in North Frederick St. Sean T. O'Kelly asked could he join it and did. This Club became the nucleus of a Sinn Fein Election Committee for representation in public bodies. The establishment of the Liberty Clubs contemporaneously with the existence of Sinn Fein resulted in confusing the public mind on the exact position and after de Valera was returned for Clara and really recognised as leader, the name of Liberty Club was abandoned and the term Sinn Fein was henceforth synonymous with Republican. The next decision was that somebody should contact Russia. "Andrew Malone" knew a Russian doctor in London and suggested that contact should be made through him. Pat McCartan, who was on the run for almosta year in Tyrone, had not been attending the meetings in our house, but there was a constant courier travelling - Josephine Owens of Beragh (she afterwards married Justice O'Hanrshan) - who took messages to him. The difficulty then arose of getting a passport for whoever should go as emissary to Russia. A forged passport for Italy was obtained for Dr. McCartan who volunteered to undertake the mission. Having gone to Liverpool, he found there was no prospect of getting away for weeks so he went to London where he interviewed the Gavan Duffys and met this Russian doctor at their home. His visit to London coincided with the publication of Wilson's famous 14 points as conditions of a peacetime treaty, On the evening of the release of the prisoners from Lewes 39. Gaol he tried to contact them at Euston.He found that they had been taken by a specialtrain. He followed by the night mail and overtook them at Holyhead. He showed them the Statement that he was bringing with him to the Russian government. The text of that is in his book. In the meantime McCartan had got word from Dublin to go to America instead of to Russia. Actually on the way to Dublin Eoin MacNeill began to write a statement which was to be signed by the moat prominent of the released men. The boat came into Dunlaoghaire and the ex-priers came to Westland Row and were taken to Fleming's Hotel in Gardiner's Place. McCartan (who was still on the run) travelled to town by tram. As an arrangement wasmade that all the released men would meet at the National Aid Offices in Exchequer St. to be photographed, it was decided that the statement should be completed end signed there by the representative men. During the forenoon, I prepared a linen handkerchief, dipping it in cold starch and ironing it while wet so that it would be like parchment. The men then met, the statement was approved and signed. The full text of it also is in McCartan's bock "With do Valera in America". My husband and Dr. McCartan brought the statement to our house end transcribed it In indelible ink on the handkerchief, transcribing also the names of the signatories. When it was dry I dipped it in cold water to remove the stiffening. I then took McCartan's waistcoat, ripped it at the top and bottom and inserted the statement between the two linings. I then sewed up the waistcoat again and he brought it in that way to America, wearing it under his sailor's gansey. In 1918 I was on a panel of Sinn Fein candidates put forward for election to the Corporation. Mrs. Wyse-Power was 40. the other woman. Sean T. O'Kelly also was a candidate. I lost by four votes. Mrs. Wyse-Power end Sean T. were elected. Shortly afterwards, on the same ticket I was elected Poor Law Guardian. Death of Thomas Ashe. When Thomas ashedied on hunger strike in Nountjoy AineO'Rahilly and myself were deputed by the National Aid Society to buy wreaths and hire care for the relatives of Tom Asheat his funeral. Vesits to America and Associationswith Clan na Gael. I should mention, lest I forget it, that if you have not got a copy of the last part of Casement's diary dealing with the month of March just before he left Carmanyfor Ireland, I might be able to procure it for you. When I was in America in 1932, Maloney was writing his book about the forged diaries and Joe McGarritygave me the original of the diary to get photostatic copies made of it for the purpose of completing Maloney's book on the forged diaries. I got four copies made at the Chrysler Building in New York and Joe McGerrity gave me one copy for myself which I brought back to Ireland